919. - Nicole Richie

[00:00] All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] How Long Gone, the client is updated. Uh, it is Chris Black. I'm coming to you from the very rare sunny London, Jason. Um- Sunny London. I think the- they're gonna be off their heads tonight. The pints are gonna be flowing. Because it's a Tuesday, and the sun is out, and ... They don't need a reason. You know, they don't really, they don't need a reason. Uh- Okay ... how are you feeling, big bro? I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. You know, it's, it's, it- there's a, there's a, the heat is on here, you know, 90 degrees. Going to, might bop over to Palm Springs, do a little pool time in between, you know, little gigs here and there with KK. Um, real quick up top correction I made last episode about- Uh-oh ... the, uh [laughs] Here we go. No, it's not, it's not a big deal. It's involving when I said Danny Trejo said the word, "Give me some chon chon." Oh, Jesus Christ. How many fucking idiots corrected you about this? Please tell me. Two. Only two. Only two. Oh, my God. But I, I, it was, he said that in the film Blood In Blood Out, not From Dusk Till Dawn. All right, guys, keep it on your l- fucking letter- As a member of the West Side, um, familia, as a Sureño, I had to make that correction. Okay. I'm sorry. Well, d- guys, keep it on your fucking Letterboxd, okay? You can, you don't, I mean, I, I don't think this is really necessary information, but I'm glad that we've corrected the record. It is, it is not necessary, but I just want, you know, I want it to be clear 'cause I would, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night- I know, yeah ... knowing all my OGs and carnales and, uh- [laughs] Oh, I see. You're more ... Okay ... my primos and my paisanos would be silently judging me. I see. You're not worried about our listeners. You're worried about the real, the guys in the streets that, that could be possibly judging you. Well, no, no, no. The, the cross-section between guys in the street and our listeners, I know all 12 of them. [laughs] I know, I know all of these barbers in the San Fernando Valley. [laughs] And I want them to think I'm cool and chill. I was about to say 12 is, I, that's more than I would've thought, so I'll take that. You thought I was gonna say 13, huh? Trece, bitch. [laughs] Um, okay. All right. Okay, that's enough gang top at the, uh, at the [laughs] gang talk at the top of the Cole Ritchie episode. We're gonna be de- we're gonna be, we're gonna be demonetized for that. Even though our guest really likes tatted up, [laughs] tatted up guys. That's true. [laughs] She likes tat- she likes tatted up guys in hats, so this is not that crazy for her. Yeah, yeah. A little more, they, she likes the guys who are a little more public-facing with their love of emo music. That's true, yeah. They don't really have to listen to it in the c- in the Chados. They don't have to- They can afford rims. They only claim at the drive-in. [laughs] Hey, I only claim at the drive-in, fool. Not no Mars Volta shit. That shit is gay. Um, all right. Well, yeah, I guess the, the Oscars happened, and, um, a lot of our- Mm-hmm ... unfortunately, some of our fellow podcasters are taking a bigger hit than Timothee Chalamet. [laughs] And, and, and when I, when I mean big, I don't mean in physical size obviously. I mean more in, um, in the, the, the- Yes ... splashback. That little demon. Our, our [laughs] Hollywood's favorite tiny demon. The New York Magazine headline says, "At the Vanity Fair Oscar party, Jake Shane told both Julia Fox and Damson Idris that he thought the sick child in If I Had Legs I'd Kick You was so annoying, and it didn't go over well." I, I haven't seen that movie. I'm sure you haven't either. I saw the first half of it. You know, I, I w- I love Rose Byrne. I do too. I don't wanna have two hours of a, of a sick kid- Let me ask you a question ... in the sauna. And Jake, that kid was not annoying. That kid was sick. It's really fucked up that you'd say that. I was about to say, I was about to say unfortunately, I'm gonna guess the kid is annoying in the movie. [laughs] But Jake Sh- Jake Shane as a broadcaster, a Joe Budden voice, as a broadcaster on the red carpet should know not to say that to people. That's the- [laughs] That's the, that's what separates the pros from the amateurs. Like, "All those Jewish guys in Schindler's List were so whiny." [laughs] It's like- That's literally- ... shut up. It's like, dude, you can't. You just gotta, even if you feel it- Just give him an Alfred and tell him to shut up ... it really made me laugh watching Julia F- Julia Fox. Just both of them had to sit there, like, mouth agape, like, getting told by Julia Fox that they, like, don't understand- Yeah ... what they're talking about. Read down by mama. Yeah, that's gotta sting. Hopefully Jake is taking a long, hard look in that child-sized mirror at his decisions- He got up, he got up- ... and maybe he's gonna listen and learn and do the cultural work. He got up on his little stool to look in the mirror, and he's- [laughs] He sees- By the way, Happy St. Patrick's Day to all of our listeners. [laughs] He's doing the work. He's doing, he's doing the work. He's staring himself in the face. But I think that, I think there's def- Jacob Shane. This is all, this is the thing that people keep talking about, and this is the thing that he said which I actually appreciate. He was like, "I'm not a journalist. Like, that's not my job. I'm not, that's not what I'm trying to do," which I think is fair. Uh-huh. But maybe he took it too far the other way.You know, maybe he took it a little too far- Yeah ... too far in the other direction. But he got killed for some other stuff with, uh, with, with Louis Pullman too. I didn't really read into it. So I think that maybe, maybe he won't be asked back. I, I don't know. Look, I mean, let's hope so, 'cause it- it's not necessarily his fault. Like, I'm sure Vanity Fair and, uh, his agent, his team at Wasserman or whatever... I mean, sorry, his team at The Team worked out a, a, a tidy little fee for him, and h- he's not gonna say no to that. It's someone else's fault for hiring... It's, it's Guduchi's fault for hiring him on as a cultural commentator when his only culture is whatever, you know, getting in Kaia Gerber's plate. Well, I mean, I think that, to be fair, he is... I mean, this is not cra- this is who everybody hires basically, is him- Yeah ... Amelia. It's everybody's fault except for him. We got Mary Beth. Who else we got? Quinn. It's the sa- I mean, you know, it's, like, kinda the same thing- Yeah ... everywhere you look. I, I don't- Mary Beth is good, though. She's, she's got zingers. She's cultural. She knows what's going on. Oh, I think Mary Beth's re- I'm, I'm thinking Mary Beth's really good. I'm just saying- Yeah ... I'm just saying the, the idea of this sorta, like, there was a woman who I'm not familiar with, but sh- I think she was on E! for a long time or maybe one of the bigger networks. She was on The Cutting Room Floor. Mm-hmm. And she was basically like, "This is what you get when you hi- Yeah, yeah ... you know, blah, blah, blah." They're going for vi- viral moments, and I'm like, well, to be fair, I would almost rather... I would rather see Jake Shane fucking miss the fastball nine times out of 10 and get one right than see some boring person on E! Entertainment kiss somebody's ass- Mm-hmm ... a- about a movie that's bad. Like, I don't think either one is right necessarily. Like, I think that, I think that this is the modern time that we live in, and I think it's, it's not gonna deliver every time. But I would rather see that than... I mean, we've seen it when we did red carpets. It's like there are people just kissing ass in a way that is, like, unbelievable. Like, it makes the, it makes the actor uncomfortable I think, truly. [laughs] Like, I think it's, like, to... it's to the po- it's to the point of like, dude, you're, you're, you're laying it on a little too thick. Like, let's relax. Yeah. There's gotta be a middle ground. Yeah, I mean, but also Shane was, was glazing as well. You know, you got a Sarah Pidgeon up there, and he's like, "Oh my God, I'm obsessed with you." I think that's, you know... for the dum-dum continency- contingency out there- No, you have to glaze. You have to glaze ... you have to glaze a little bit. But it's like, who- You have to. You have to glaze ... if this is the Vanity Fair Oscar party, to me, you know, people are w- wearing more elegant clothing and more couture looks than they wear to the actual awards show. Let's have a little more, you know, higher level of class. I don't care... No, I don't care about, I don't care about com- I don't care about the clothes. I don't care about the movies. I care about anything else- [laughs] ... that you got going on that you wanna talk about tonight. What else is there? I mean, but the thing with the... This is the other thing I saw today. This, this woman Ruthie wrote a s- this is very interesting, I thought. She, she wrote a, a, the, a newsletter about how, like... Basically she was saying that, like, now everybody is so skinny that no one is talking about the clothes. [laughs] Which I was like, shit, she's kinda right. She's ki- it was, it was, like, more insightful than that obviously and more well-written, but it was sorta like everybody is so like, "Oh my God, Maude Apatow looks like a skeleton." They don't even know what she's wearing or what, what... You know, they don't care about that. [laughs] Like, the clothes have almost become secondary because the bodies have now taken center stage. Oh, so it's like, "Who are you wearing? Wegovy." Yeah. It's... And she's not wrong, though. She's... I was like, yeah, she's kinda right. Yeah. Like, the conversation is like... Or it's like, you know, they look amazing, but the undert- you know, whatever, the undertone is more about their, their, like- Right ... their looks, not the look. It's more of like, "Wow, who's your trainer?" You know? Yeah, yeah, it's not that, it's not that. "Oh, this is Oscar de la Renta? Wow, that's awesome." But whatever. It all works in the celebrity's favor. Like, I don't think there's any downside to any of this really. You know what I mean? Like, Julia Fox looks great. You know what I mean? Like, she looks amazing for doing that. Uh, it's like, you know... I, I just don't really know. I, I just think it's sort of a... It's a tough job no matter who you give it to, but I think that it could be, uh, a little more fun and a little less glazing. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and maybe that would work. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the reason it's been this way forever is because it, it, it works in some, in some strange way. In some strange way. Well, do you remember anyone who didn't get it right? In what sense? Looks-wise. You know, like, who, who was not looking good? Oh, I mean, most people look stupid. But I mean, I don't know. [laughs] I, I don't remember. I don't really... Like, I look at all that stuff, and then I'm like, "That's nice." Like, Emma Stone did look amazing. Mm-hmm. Like, Emma Stone looked crazy. Uh, that wasn't at Vanity Fair though. I think that she didn't get invited to the Vanity Fair party, which she said, which is really fucking funny. Word. Um- That's interesting ... there's a, there's some other... I don't know, man. It's like all guys try too hard, and, you know, it's like you, you just put on... It's not good enough to put on a tuxedo. You have to put on, you know, a midriff tuxedo with a scarf as a tie- [laughs] ... and a brooch that is the... I mean, what's his name? Pedro Pascal wore, didn't wear a jacket, which I do think is crazy. And I'm not, like, a stickler for, for rules, but, like, bro, the, the flowy white shirt with no jacket felt a little crazy to me. Especially with no mustache in play. It really removed all of his powers. Leo looked good at... Leo looked good. The de- the de- the debuffification of, of, of DiCaprio really turning heads. He's got his cortisol in check. They're saying that he took Pedro's mustache, and, and that is- Ooh ... that, that's, that's something. Oh. So I don't know. I didn't see the... You know, I don't know what doctor they go to or whatever, but it sounds like- He said, "I'll be having that." Um, yeah, I th- I think we for some reason, you know, when I w- speaking on the, on the subject of brooches, when I was watching Adrien Brody do whatever weird shit he was doing, uh, it seems like every time the camera panned away and then back to him, his brooch got a little bit bigger every t- [laughs] ... every time. [laughs] And then, you know, by, by 90 seconds in, it, it had sort of taken over the whole frame. It, it covered his face. Yeah, I, I- Yeah, but we, we gotta stop. And brooches, we're done with brooches for the fellas. Brooches are if you are a matriarch only. I like a brooch. Or, I mean, I think it... I think what the problem is it went from a pin to a brooch, and that is a very big increase in size- Not all brooches are created equal ... and real estate. I think that's the problem. I think it went from a... It also... But I do think it's maybe an opportunity t- for a man to get some of that jewelry money. Oh. Like, I... You know, I'm wearing, I'm wearing Bulgari. I'm wearing Boucheron or whatever. Mm-hmm. Like, a way to, like, get jewelry money without having to wear, you know, two watches. We getting jewelry money. I wanted to... Before, before our guest gets on, I had this crazy drink last night that I wanted to talk to you about. Okay. It was at a place called... Hold on. You got a, you got a Guinness 0.0? No, Issy took me to this place called Sessions Arts Club, which I've heard about for years and I've just never been. It was, like, right around the corner from the hotel. And she's, she doesn't drink obviously, but she also stopped drinking, um, Diet Coke. Mm-hmm. So she was interested in... And there was a-There was this sort of... It was like a tomato soda Mm. It was a, it was, it was like a tomato soda, but it was, it had some Szechuan undertones. [laughs] And it was one of the wildest drinks that I've ever had, and it was one of those things where I was like, I had a sip, and I was like, "That's all I can handle of this, but this is one of the most interesting drinks I've ever-" Mm. The food was great, but this drink was really- Okay ... something else. It was a, it was a fizzy, hoppy, Szechuan tomato tea spritzer. [laughs] Yes, yes. That sounds like something I would like to only drink on an airplane. It... That's what it felt like. It felt like the spiritual cousin of like a, a, a, a, a toothless Bloody Mary. Do you know what I mean? It felt, it felt like a- Oh, yeah ... I was just blown away. It was such a wild- That would amuse the fuck out of my boosh. It was [laughs] it was a really weird one. It was a really weird one. Um- Okay ... all right, we have a guest today, Nicole Richie. I'll be in London in a couple months. I, I hope to try it. It's... Honestly, I think you would like it. I think it's really something that you would... Just 'cause it's so extreme, I think that it's- Mm ... it's what you're looking for. I'm an extreme guy. All right, we have a guest today. Nicole Richie is joining us. Uh, I mean, I don't know if we really need to give much of an introduction. Um, LA legend. Mm-hmm. Actress, entrepreneur, mother. Jewelry baron. Yeah. The... It's, it's, she's doing it right and we're- What hasn't she given us? And we're doing it wrong. Um, all right, let's, uh, let's go to Calabasas or wherever and, and, and chat with her. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is n- this is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot, 'cause I can't do anything. You need, you need some art hang, hung? TaskRabbit. You need, you need a, you need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Gotta reach, reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything, anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And I, I mean, it, what... How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. Uh, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. 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That is $15 off your first task using promo code HOWLONG with the TaskRabbit app or at taskrabbit.com This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, Stateside. Mm-hmm. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. [laughs] Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Thank you so much for describing me as an LA queen. [laughs] I, I don't, I don't think that that is something... I don't think that's an original thought from my head. I feel like that's maybe how society feels about you. We're just reporting the news. No one's ever called me that before, and, uh, I accept. [laughs] I've been called a lot of stuff before too, and I usually don't like it, so I get where you're coming from. I've been called many things, yeah, so. [laughs] I accept this one. I just get called a lot of stuff. All right, so you're taking out your earrings. 'Cause they're banging against these headphones. Are we, are we home in LA, or are we still down in Nawlins, mama? I got back from New Orleans. I landed at 1:00 AM. It took me three attempts to get home. Really? Like the, like the plane pulled up before it landed and circled, or like, what are we talking about here? They canceled, they cancel- one flight just got canceled. Mm-hmm. You know, there's only two flights that go- Like a direct from- ... go to and from that are direct ... from New Orleans to Van Nuys or LAX? LAX. Don't do that, Jason. Okay. Yeah. [laughs] Thank you so much for thinking that I roll like that. If it was Van Nuys, I'd be like, "We're leaving when I say we're leaving." [laughs] There's no attempts. There's only successes there. Yeah. Thank you so much. [laughs] Yes, no. The Queen of LA flies commercial. I know what you're getting at. I'm a basic B. [laughs] Um, so they canceled my flight, and I'm a mom, so I was like, "No, I've got to get home. What do you mean?" Like, when they say, "No, you're flying tomorrow," like, you just go into a panic. Mm-hmm. And I was flying with my girlfriend, Cleo, who's also a mom, and we were just like, "No, no, no. Like, this trip is done. We have to get home." [laughs] Anyway, I don't understand. You don't think, "You understand, this trip is over." Yeah. [laughs] I am still in New Orleans. We have to go. What were you guys doing in one of America's worst cities, if you don't mind me asking? Whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. [laughs] New Orleans is my favorite city in the country. I didn't know you were an alcoholic. Um, I'm not. I wish I was. Okay. [laughs] But I'm not. So you're aspi- aspirationally. Yeah. So what is it that you like? You just like that, that fake Europe meets Southern vibe? I love every single thing about it. I love the mindset. I love- The vomit on the sidewalksI love the vomit on the sidewalk. [laughs] I love the parades. I love the food. I love- Mm-hmm ... all of it. I just love all of it. Don't lie to- don't, don't act like you're taking down a dozen beignets before noon. Okay? Let's call it. Let's- That's actually all I did yesterday during my floating- [laughs] ... how the hell do I get home? We were just like, "Okay, I guess we'll just go get more beignets." Stress, stress eating beignets is, I've, I've- Best thing there ... just stress eating beignets. Okay. So you and y- you and Cleo just went for a little holiday, a girls' weekend. Um, no, we did not go for a little holiday. So I went early to speak at Tulane. Um, they asked me to speak to students. I mean, I've never been asked to speak at a college in my life. I was so excited. Yeah. Can you give us a preview of the syllabus or, or a review of, of, of your talking points? Um, it was for fashion and entertainment students. Okay. Um, and then also Tulane holds the New Orleans Book Fest, and, um, Cleo and I curate... We have our own tent. It's called The Burgundy Room, and, uh, basically we just, like, interview our favorite authors and talk about books. My friend Jedidiah, you know Jedidiah, Jason. Um- Mm-hmm. Jedidiah flew down so I could interview him. My friend Sasha Sagan flew down so I could interview her. And, um, anyway, on Sunday my mindset was, "Now this is done." [laughs] And so when the trip got extended, like, I just turn- We did everything. I needed to- I turned into a non-person. I was like, "No, I can't function. I have decided in my head that I've clocked out," and, um- Mm-hmm ... so. I actually know, this happened, this happened to me recently in Charleston, the same thing. It was like I was ready to go, and then it was, like, two, three days extra, and I sort of had to just let go. I had to really release something to calm down. Yeah. You just bec- like, I was just a shell of a human. And Chris, your background, you look like you could be in New Orleans with all these colors. I agree. I'm in London, which is like New Orleans but, uh, better. Okay. [laughs] Um, not weather-wise, unfortunately. But yeah, I'm in London, so it does... But it is very, it, this hotel is, I love this hotel. It's called The Zetter, but it's ex- it's very maximal. It's very British in its design choices. Chic. This is my color palette, so I'm down. You like a green? A what, what would you call this green? Pistachio. P? I actually don't like pistachio. Hold on. I actually take it back. This is not, I don't like these colors, but I like the color combination. [laughs] Okay, so you like where their head was at, but maybe you would do it a little bit differently. I love the attempt. Okay, sure, sure. [laughs] I'll let them know over there. I'll let them know. The whole team. Yeah. We applaud big swings over here, but it's gonna be a miss for us. Yeah. What is your, what is your color palette, then, in your, in your home? Is it neutral? Is it punchy? Is it printed wallpaper in the powder room? If it were up to me, I would do print on print. I love- You chicks, y'all gotta be controlled. Y'all gotta be controlled. That's why y'all got a man at the house. I, I know. He'd be like, "Stop. Relax." To calm everything down. So who is it, who is it up to, then? Well, I live with three other people. [laughs] Your roomies? Two teenagers and my husband, my roomies. They're te- hold on. They're fucking teenagers? I have a 16-year-old and an 18-year-old. What? Yeah. 18? Yeah. Oh, hell no. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Gay son or thot daughter? [laughs] Both. Yeah. Okay. [laughs] Okay. Okay. Hold on. This, this- Are they getting into trouble yet? They're really, they're really good kids. Mm-hmm. And they are fun. Like, I love hanging with them. I love talking to them. Like, I call them on the phone all the time. We Snapchat. Oh, okay. Okay. [laughs] See, this, when you said you had to get home, it made, it made it sound like you had some toddlers you had to attend to, but you're saying you had to rush home to get a 16-year-old to the mall? [laughs] That just feels a little- It's just as, it's just as much work having small kids as it is having teenagers. I believe, I believe that. Like, they're up at night. Like, I, I have to be, you know, I gotta be here. I have to handle. Sure. [laughs] I have to handle. You have to make sure that boys aren't coming over to the house late at night. Yeah. I gotta do all the things. And also I had this podcast to do, and I was excited about it, and I didn't wanna cancel. Well, thank you. Luckily, the thing with this podcast is you can do it anywhere. No, I couldn't have done it yesterday and Mon- [laughs] If, if I was still trying to get home, I would just be, like, drunk, eating beignets. You'd still have white powder all over your face from the beignets. [laughs] Powder and just like, "No, I cannot function." [laughs] Okay, so you said that you wish you were an alcoholic. Do you, are you fully sober now, or do you have a little, little sip here and there? No, I love a little sip, but, um- Okay. [laughs] I am a very... I heard you guys before I jumped on, well, I was on, but you guys were talking, and you guys were talking about drinks, and I was like, "That's so cool," because I am not, like, alcohol or no alcohol, I'm a very boring drinker. Like, I don't even think, I don't even think about drinks. Like, when you said, "I, I tried a new drink, and I wanna talk about it," I was like, "Whoa." [laughs] And then I thought to myself, "Are they gonna a- ask me, like, a cool drink that I drink?" [laughs] And I think, like, the most exciting think I, thing I drink would be ginger ale on the plane, but it's more so I don't throw up. Mm-hmm. Here's the, here's the thing. Uh, I don't drink. I'm sober. Cool. And I don't like non-alcoholic drinks except water, really, and coffee. Like, I'm not experimental. So that's why I, I brought this up. Okay. So we are the same. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's why I brought this up, because last night my friend ordered this Twisted Tomato Fizz, and I tried it, and I was like, "This is, this doesn't even make, compute to me as a drink." Like, the flavors didn't make sense. Yes. And Jason- Yes ... is a, is a flavor expert, so I wanted to tell him about it to see if he had any- In drinks or food? In drinks? Uh, I'm, I'm, I would say I'm more proficient in food, but drinks, yeah, I'm, like, I mean- Also expert at being- ... coffee and wine are a blind spot for me ... expert I was being generous, obviously, but he's, he's very well-versed. And when it comes to food, I am a master, though. I can confidently say that. Wow. Okay. Okay. Same. Oh, really? I think so. Okay. Wow. You guys are both- Yeah ... you guys are both full of shit. What, what are you, what are you...? [laughs] Yeah. Well, this is good because this is sort of female chef month at How Long Gone. We have Jessica from Squirrel on next week, or next episode. Ruthie from the River Cafe in London was just on. Cool. Ella Quittner, a cookbook writer, was just on the week before that. So what are you, what are you cheffing it up?At home Well, I cook all the time. I cook probably five days a week. Mm-hmm. Same. Same. So I cook a lot. Um, and I just started... I bake, I bake, and I just started making sourdough, but- [laughs] Can I say that? I bake. I bake. I'm a baker. I live... Uh, I'm not a baker. Like, I couldn't bake. I couldn't tell you about some, like, lemon whatever cake. Like, that's not... You know, I'm a basic baker- [laughs] But- Right ... I do make bread. Mm-hmm. Um, I make our bread every week. Mm. And I cook. I cook a lot. You have a, you have a sourdough starter? I do have a sourdough starter. Thank you for asking. I love this. It's like I'm in the Soviet Union. I can just go line up at, at Nicole's house, get my bread for the week. Did you get it from Gwyneth? Where'd you get this starter from? I got it from, uh, a, a guy named Harold that, um- Shout out, Harold ... yeah, shout out to Harold. And he actually, like, has the same voice as you, now that I'm thinking about it, and he's tall. He's not as tall as you- Okay ... but he's tall. Okay. Harry the tall bread man. Yeah, Harold the tall bread man. What does he do for a living? He's a chef. Oh, he is a chef. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. And so, um, he's, he's a, a girl that I grew up's husband, and he gave me a starter. Period. That's a pretty... I, I don't really understand this because I don't cook, but the starter, does it mat- Like, does it... Do you need to get it from a tru- Is it like cocaine? Do you need to get it from a trusted source, or can you do anybody's? [laughs] You know what I'm saying? From a trusted source. Always, always trust your starter with a starter script. I, I have heard that people get it online. So you can get your starter on the dark web if you want, but it's nicer to know it comes from a good, loving home, is what you're saying. You could also get it from, like, a influencer hot chick on her fake TikTok web store. You know what I mean? Oh. Yeah, but that doesn't feel as good. No, no, no. You wanna have, like, a rustic, thousand-year-old starter from, like, a old Scottish man from the 1800s kind of thing. It, it was, it was nice, and he said, "I'm on my way to work. Can you meet at the mall?" And I did, and he gave it to me. So you had a parking lot drop, like it was a- Yeah ... Facebook Marketplace sale? Yes. Wow. Yeah. And I was like... I said, "Okay." I said, "I'm parked on the side. I'm in a black car," and we met and did the handoff. [laughs] So do I Venmo you? So, so you had to get home from New Orleans to feed your starter. The starter's in the fridge. So the starter is starving currently. [laughs] You guys were more important. Oh, wow. Okay. We were, we were- Okay ... okay. For the, for the two days a week that you're not cooking, are we going out? Are we ordering Goop Kitchen in? A little bit of both? What's, what's the move? I do like to go out. Yeah. I order in. [laughs] Okay. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. I think I do all of those things. We're going out. We're ordering in. You know, you know what? It's, it's fucked up, Jason- Yeah, yeah ... but I like both going out- I'm like, I do all of those things ... and ordering in, if you can believe it. If you can believe that. Now that you say that- Yeah ... I kinda feel the same way- Yeah ... as well, you guys. I actually, as an, as a New Yorker, I have to say that the... I've really tried to become a pickup guy because the diminishing returns of delivery have gotten- Mm ... have gone- Mm ... to the point, I don't care about the ethics of it. It's about the time and the effort involved. It's just not... It doesn't work the same way. Mm-hmm. I would rather spend the time myself to go pick it up. Perfect. That I can wholeheartedly say I do not do. Well, you can't do that in your, in a g- But it sounds nice You can't do that in a gated community, in the Hills or whatever. It's like you- Yeah, Chris lives in New York City. He goes out, wal- walks around the corner, picks up his vegetarian pho- Picks it up ... goes back upstairs Comes home. Love is Blind, season 14, and boom. Oh. For you, it's not so easy. Cool. Love is Blind. Well, season 10 just finished, and I know Nicole, you watch it, right? I do not, but I can pretend I do. Okay. All right, diva. Okay. [laughs] I got two divas here. I got two divas here. No, it's okay. You know, I fly to Van Nuys, and I don't watch Love is Blind. [laughs] This is my- Yeah, Chris, we're kind of above that kind of peasant stuff, but have fun watching it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just... I'm too, I'm too good for it, but that sounds really cute. I like that because we're talking to someone who literally was part of the original wave of that genre of television, so that makes it even better, I think. Well, now she's an invited guest at literary fairs in New Orleans, so it's a little different, Chris. [laughs] That's true. That is different. So I'm, I'm simply, I'm simply too good for it. [laughs] I did watch the first season during COVID, and that was fun. Maybe I'll get back in. It's a show that people are now saying is, like, ethically wrong, you know, 'cause none of the... Basically, none of the marriages work out is the problem. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, no shit. That's not really the point. It's, like, entertainment. But people, there's some blowback. You know, people like to get mad about stuff like that. Um, I don't have any strong feelings about it. If you told me you should watch it, I would turn it on tonight. Well, how much, how much TV are you watching? Um, I watch... I, when, when I'm locked into a show, then I'm just locked in, but I'm not, like, always jumping on the current shows. My favorite show in the world, hands down, hands down, is Breaking Bad, and that is my, like, cozy show. I've probably seen the, the whole thing start to finish 10 times. Wow. And, like, if I have a cold- [laughs] ... then I'll, like, watch it and go to sleep. If I have a cold. So when you, when, whenever you have COVID, you can do the whole entire, boom, knock the whole thing out. Jason- Yeah ... you haven't seen that show, have you? I haven't seen that show. I've, I've seen- Guys ... probably half of it. I don't know. You must. It just never clicked with me that much. You must. K- Let me, let me tell you something. The first episode I did not like, and it took me a few times to get in. It's brown. The house is, like, not... It's just, the color palette is not there, and, like, it's just not exciting. [laughs] Oh, you're saying the overall tone of the program is brown, like the, the, just the, everything is- Like, the show is brown, and he's eating turkey bacon, and it's just, like, not- Mm-hmm, Albuquerque ... I get it. It's not Don Draper having a martini and getting his dick sucked. Yes. It's not, like, sexy like that, but it, it gets there. Yeah. It gets there, and it is hands down the best show on the planet. Yeah, it really s- things really start heating up once they get the car wash business in place. Then things get really sexy, right? [laughs] Yeah, very, it's very sexy. It's a very sexy show. I know, but this is not an unpopular opinion. A lot of people would agree with you, I think. Very popular show. Yeah. Very popular show. A lot of people would agree with you. No, I don't think I'm niche. I'm just saying, like, I will rewatch that show more. Like, if someone was like, "Have you seen..." I don't know. What's the hottest show right now?Love Story? Love Story. Yeah. I actually am watching that, so that, this is a, that's a bad example, but- I think, I think con- contractually as a woman you're, you ha- I think it's biological that you watch Love Story. I feel like there's no choice. It's wonderful, yeah. See, I, I watched the first episode and then I kinda lost interest, but I do... You know, the crazy, did we talk about this Jason? That the actress, like, her team photoshopped her hair blonde. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we did. To get her the role, and I saw her with dark hair and it freaked me the fuck out. It's like a d- it's a completely different person. Same. And I just saw a photo of her, like, two days ago- It's crazy ... with brown hair, and I thought it was AI. I thought it was fake. Exact- it's crazy. Mm-hmm. It's crazy. I was like, "I can't believe that she even thought that she could play Carole Bisset." [laughs] Like, I couldn't believe it. The power of casting directors. I was like, "Wow, I can't believe you have that vision." And she's, and she's, and it looks s- it's, she's gorgeous. She's beyond. Uh, we, we agree on this show. J- it's a rare time Jason and I agree. Yeah. We would both have sex with her. Oh, cool. [laughs] No, super, super cool. Same. Super cool. You're like, "You know what? Me too." Yeah. Yeah. Fuck it. All, all right. Yeah, yeah. Let's do it. Whatever. Yeah. I, I, I saw her shining at the Oscars, and I saw your dad shining at the Oscars this year as well. Is that correct? He was at the Oscars, yes. I did not watch the Oscars. Okay. I'm too good for Love is Blind and too good for the Oscars. [laughs] I didn't watch the Oscars. Slash I was just trying to get home. I didn't watch the Oscars either, and I do feel... I'm a big awards show person. That's one of my favorite things. Okay. I'll watch any, I'll watch any... I mean, I don't wanna watch the Directors Guild Awards, but I'm saying I'll go pretty deep, you know? And I've, I felt weird missing it. I was in Switzerland. The time, the time was so fucked up I couldn't- Mm ... there was no way, so I was just- And we've already moved on from it. There's no reason to go back and rewatch. No. You can't rewatch an awards show. But- It's crazy ... my, um, my wife who's a, a wardrobe stylist, she said that your dad's tux was, quote-unquote, "flawless" on him. Ooh, cool. So pass that on up, up the flagpole, okay? I'm gonna, I'm gonna text L Train as soon as we're done. [laughs] Hey. And tell him. You call your dad L Train? Yeah. What a name. What else would I call him? Lionel Richie. I have a, I have a, I have a nickname for my dad too. I mean, he's, it's different obviously, 'cause no one knows who he is, but I still have a nickname for him. [laughs] What is it? His name is Gary, so we'll hit him with a Gario. You know, like Gare dash O. It's a pretty- Yeah ... it's, it's not in the same, it's not dissimilar from L Train. Gario. Yeah. It's a little more- I think it's pretty similar actually. I think it's in the same- It's a little more fraternity I think. Did, did he give himself the L Train name, or was that bestowed to him? I don't know. I mean, his college friends and my mom, they call him Skeet. Hmm. Um, and I don't know why. I've never asked. Don't ask. It, it's best that you don't. Don't [laughs] Yeah. Agreed. Um- You've gone this, you've ge- gone this long. [laughs] You- you're probably fine not knowing. Yeah, no. I feel like it's dangerous to know at this point. [laughs] That's really funny. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. That's really funny. W- when I was, when, when I was watching the Oscars, there was a part where they had the, the K-pop demon hunters performing, and then, uh, they had all the, the S- Stellan Skarsgårds and, and Leo DiCaprios and all these famous actors, and they gotta wave around this K-pop flashlight stick. Bro. Were your kids ever into some bullshit like that when, you know- See, hold on ... whatever, five, six years ago? Can you ima- I can't imagine Leonardo DiCaprio doing that. I, un- I don't know if he was, but I mean, it, it appeared that the whole entire audience- Yeah, they give them out, yeah ... of these dignified actors, they're waving this stick around like they're at a fucking- Oh, God ... but you, I'm, I'm assuming your kids, because of you and their father, were steered in the right direction musically and culturally, or did they have a couple speed bumps along the way? What are, what do you mean? Like, were they into some bullshit ever? Yeah. Okay. [laughs] They're teens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I think, I think that we for- I forget that, that the K-pop demon hunters thing is something that has not ever, I've never heard it. I, like, I've never heard it. I've never, I've only seen it on awards shows. Mm-hmm. I've never actually heard it or seen it. 'Cause it's for children. But it feels like it doesn't exist to me in some ways, and then it pops up in the, in the largest stages in the world. Do you wanna know a childhood trauma that I have that I- Yeah ... have not ever gotten over? I feel like you probably have a lot, but if you wanna start here, that's fine. Yeah. I'll just, I'll- [laughs] I'm gonna say one. Chapter one. Chapter one. Um- [laughs] I really wanted to go to Tower Records and get Biz Markie's tape. Okay. "Just a Friend," was that the song? Yeah, "Just a Friend." You're 26 years old, so I don't know how you were... But whatever, we'll get into, I guess we'll figure it out. I'm 26 times two. Yeah. You, you're younger than, uh, than, you're younger than me, but I, that feels old head, I will say. So impressive. I'm 44. How old are you? I, I'm, I'm, like, one year older than you. We're all, all three of us are Virgos. I'm 43, yeah. You're 43. You're 44. I'm 45. Yeah. Okay. And we're all Virgos. Whoa, I did not know that. Okay, wait. And we're all into tatted up emo guys too. [laughs] When is your, when is your birthday? I'm September 4. September 14th. My son is the 9th. Mm-hmm. We're all Virgo queens. That's so special. What is your, wait, what is your birthday? You said your son's. I- September 21st. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Wow. I'm the very last. When everyone is so sick of Virgos and they're like, "I cannot listen to one more Virgo say it's Virgo season"- [laughs] ... then I pop up. Well, to, to be fa- Mm-hmm ... to be fair, I don't think I've ever said it's Virgo season. [laughs] It, it, maybe I've said it in jest, but I guess it still counts. You should. Chris and I are not super astrological, if you could imagine. We don't have as many crystals on our Shopify as you do. How many times ha- what kind of healers have you seen in your life, Nicole? I've seen many. [laughs] I, I, I, I have seen many. She is healed. I mean, you, you, you grew up in LA, so you don't really have a choice, but I mean, are we saying, like, how far are you willing to go? If we're, if, if classic therapist is one- I am not a he- a current, in my adult stage, I'm not, like, a current healer seeker. Like, I'm not, like, looking for a guru to change my life. Sure. But I did grow up, if, if someone was thinking about LA and, and they said, "Uh, oh, I'm sure that they grew up with psychics and- [laughs] ... astrologers are in their house"-I did. Okay. My parents were friends with astrologers and all the things, and yeah. I, I think- Mm ... astrology for some reason, I'm, I don't participate, but I'm okay with it. The, the other stuff is a little too far for me. The, the palm reader- Okay. I'm not even saying like... This isn't, being a Virgo queen is not even, like, I don't think you need to care about actually any other signs or care about astrology period. Like, I think it's just more I just love my Virgo-ness and I love my birthday, and I think that you should too. Okay. So do you have- Okay ... are you a, are you a birthday queen? Like, you have a big party every year and it's all, it's about you? Is it a week long? We don't, we don't love our birthday so much. We're, we don't dread it, but, like, how can you teach us as a Virgo queen to, to love and appreciate our birthday more? Just have more self-worth in general? [notification sound] This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do all our peers, our, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues. Obviously. Maybe even your parents, if they're freaky. Um, and if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures- I do topless boxing ... you need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris, well, I'm, I'm over here, I'm modifying calculators. I'm putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school, and I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SE- SEO tools so those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote-unquote, "donations" for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Say, "Hey, I got a new up- you know, 2.3 version upgrade." Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're gonna wanna get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So- Head to squarespace.com/howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code HOWLONG to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. Uh, I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and that are just easy but, you know, still put together. I don't wanna look like a slob. That's why I keep go- coming back to Quince. Uh, you know, they focus on high quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. Mm. That rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a, a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer, and quality European linen pants and shirts upgrade that look starting at just $34, you know? If you get a nice linen suit and a little T-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/howlong for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, even on a nice holiday. Now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/howlong. That'll get you free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com/howlong. [notification sound] So a few years ago, I sto- after my 40th, I stopped throwing myself a birthday party because I just feel like it's silly. Mm-hmm. So my friend Cleo and I, who's also a Virgo- Cle Cle ... we throw a party together called Virgo Fest. [laughs] And I think you guys should both come because all Virgos- [laughs] ... get a headband and it says Virgo Queen. [laughs] You need one, and you need to be there. Virgo Fest sounds- Wow ... like something that happens in Atlanta, if you know what I mean. Exactly. It would be an honor, it would be an honor to go to Virgo Fest. [laughs] Okay. Well, you have to come. It would be, it would be an honor. And by the way, we celebrate- Is it black tie or can I just wear regular? You wear your Virgo Queen cape. Okay. [laughs] Okay. Whatever I deem necessary for the evening, my armor. It changes every year. And I also, our cake has every Virgo we can think of on the cake, so we're not just celebrating. It's like we put all of the Virgos on the cake. We got Beyoncé front and center on there, I'm sure. Mm-hmm. Famed Virgo. Hold on, hold on. When you s- when you say put them on there, am I gonna see, like, a cartoon of Amy Winehouse's face or, like, her name? Her face. [laughs] What? Oh, wow. Okay. [laughs] And your face. Okay, my face as well. [laughs] Yes. Can, can I ask, is it a collage style? Like, how do you fit these faces on the cake? It's a collage style, yes. Okay. [laughs] Okay. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's, I- That's for the people at Sweet Lady Jane to figure out, Chris. Don't you worry about it. Yeah. That's, I'm flying to Van Nuys. Don't ask me the details. [laughs] You're like, "I don't, I don't get the weeds. I'm just telling you what it looks like." Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] Don't be silly. How many people attend this festival? [laughs] Obviously non-Virgos are... The, it's Virgos and the, the people that love them are invited. Non-Virgos are invited, but it's more just to worship us- Mm-hmm ... as Virgos. Okay. So, like, you would love it. You would love it. Everyone would fawn over you and a- and adore you. Okay. Yeah, that sounds great for me. I need, I need a little bit of that in my life. I would say- Maybe a little gift bag would be nice ... what is your most, what is your most memorable birthday? Do you... I have one that is not really s- uh, fit for air, um, myself. [laughs] Same. Okay. Same. I, okay, okay. Yeah. [laughs] I just wanna make sure- Yeah ... we're all... 'Cause I mean-I'm, I'm, uh, I'm working on a book, and I had to get into it the other day, and I was like, "Wow." I was talking to a friend that I hadn't talked to in a long time, and he was sort of retelling what happened, and I had maybe missed some of the good parts, I'll say. Mm-hmm. Um- Yeah ... and I was shocked that that is how I chose to celebrate. [laughs] That's all I, that's all I can say. I just, I just... I mean, it, it felt like I, I celebrated, and then I celebrated, like, a lot. You know what I mean? Then- Maybe a little too much celebrating. [laughs] In those, in those special years that we've all had, you know, sometimes not every occasion is, is a reason to have a blowout party, you know? You- It's, it's funny how you find a way, like, "St. Patrick's Day-" Yeah, for sure ... I'm gonna go on a four-day bender. [laughs] And you're like, you're not even Irish, you don't even know what a... You know, Flag Day, bitch, let's buy, let's get a bag. [laughs] I have been t- [laughs] Wait, is it St. Patrick's Day today? It's today, right? Yeah, it is. It is. Okay. You guys, um, technically my last name is Madden, and so I'm offended that you have not wished me a happy St. Patrick's Day. Oh. Oh, wow. From the Madden clan. I, I'm sure they're celebrating. I, I mean, I'm sure you're gonna have some green mashed potatoes tonight. Yeah. I actually... Well, I guess I'm not wearing any green, so I'll pinch myself. I have green eyes. That is not... That, do not do that. My walls are green. Does that count? I don't know what, I don't know what- Works every time. Yeah, it does. No, you're, you're very- Am I wearing- You're very St. Patrick's Day. I'm actually, I have, I do have green on. I have a... Yeah, actually, I didn't even think about that. That's nice. I got nothing. That's nice. And green, I look good in green, too. It's a shame. Wow, I really don't. [laughs] Okay, so you guys gonna have some, like, uh, some corned beef and boiled cabbage for supper tonight? Yeah. Okay, good. I can, I can tell that. Yeah. Do you have a, what is your, what's your diet looking like? Do you have a twisted diet, or are you pretty normal? Um, I love all the foods. I love everything. Mm-hmm. Okay, so you're open, you're open to it all. You're not restricting yourself, like, for, like, I don't eat orange or something. I do eat oranges, yeah. Oh, I don't mean oranges. I mean the color, you know what I mean? Oh. Not- Like, I don't eat the color orange? Remember when people, remember when, remember when people were like, what was it? It was like, "I don't eat purple foods," or, "I only eat purple foods." This was like a, this was a thing. Yeah. This was like a whole- Or some people are like, "No white sauces at all." Like, they're repulsed by it, you know what I mean? Nothing creamy. I'm kind of r- r- repulsed by that. Yeah. I don't, I mean, I wouldn't search for something creamy. Like, that's not exciting to me. But- [laughs] If it called for it- You don't seem like a mayonnaise lover. No, I don't like mayonnaise. See, same. I really don't like mayonnaise. It's gross. You must've had a tough time down there with the po'boys. And I don't love cheese. You don't love cheese? No. Wow. And it started out, it was a vanity thing, because, um, dairy... I, I have rosacea, and so dairy will inflame my face. Mm-hmm. And then I just became, like, not excited about it, but however- [laughs] After our, um, cute spelling bee, Jason- Mm-hmm ... did you have those smash burgers outside? There was a truck outside. I did have one. And I had a smash burger, and it, I haven't stopped thinking about it. Oh, really? Name the smash. W- This, this was a smash burger that had cheese on it as well, right? It had cheese on it, yeah. So that's b- basically what I was getting at, is, like, will I have a cheeseburger? Yes. Mm-hmm. And if you said, "Do you want a grilled cheese?" I would say yes. So maybe I do like cheese. Okay. Certain cheeses. I kinda ga- I, I kind of understand what you're saying, because I'm not, I, I'm not really interested in, like, a cheese plate. You know what I mean? That's like, that doesn't really do much for me. No, that's disgusting. Yeah. This bur- the burger place is called LA Burg. I, I, they, they pop up sometimes in front of McCall's Butcher Shop in Atwater Village, is how I know them. But it's a smash burger with a little chili in it. Well, it was my first time, and it was excellent. Yeah, it was good. So shout-out to, what are they called? [laughs] LA Burg or LA Burg. I'm not exactly sure. I'm pretty sure it's LA. [laughs] It does- Yeah, but these are Mexican fools- [laughs] ... and their fonts are in old English. Don't test me. [laughs] It's a wild guess. [laughs] A wild guess. [laughs] LA Burg. But I had s- LA Burgadam ... I had so much fun at that s- at that spelling bee, and it's because of that, that I'm doing this podcast. Do you guys know this is my second podcast ever? Uh, well, I, I was... It was funny, 'cause I was, I was talking to Jacob. I was like, "I'm g-" Sometimes when we have a guest on, I'll go pull up their name on my Apple Podcast and listen to some recent episodes, see where their head's at, see where their level of, you know, sense of humor and, uh, level of being offended is, so I can get a feel for it, and there was not really anything. There was just thousands of episodes where other people talk about you, but you were not on there, other than Call Her Daddy. Well, let me tell you, I'm offended just regardless, so we can cover that. [laughs] We can get that out of the way. I'm offended right now. What are you offended by? Um, and no, I'm not... I don't, I don't know. I've just decided that I am. [laughs] Look, I get it. I get it, sister. Um, but no, I'm not on the podcast, I'm not on the podcast circuit. Which makes this more special and, and amazing that you are taking the time to chat with us, because I just figured that, you know, 'cause we're no Call Her Daddy. Yeah, I assumed you had had a pod- you know, Dear Media had written you a check for a 10 ep- you know, at some point, you know what I mean? You'd done your own, is what I would've assumed. Um, yeah. Sophia, so I think we all have Sophia Rossi in common, and she said, basically she just said to me, "You need to go on this podcast. These guys are great." I've talked to Sophia about this before. This is, like, two years in the making. We were trying to get you to do our show in LA, and it didn't w- like, live. Yeah, but I, it's not, uh, not b- I'm not, like, being difficult. I just, like, I, I haven't done- No, that's cool. It wasn't, like, an active no. I just haven't done it. And I will say, to be fair, you guys, you guys are two straight men. I mean, I can't... You are, right? Yeah. [laughs] Okay. Um, I mean, I know you, I know that you are, Jason, but I, I- Don't. [laughs] Mm-hmm ... can't imagine talking to two men for an hour. I'm like, "What is that? What?" [laughs] I don't... Like, what does that mean? [laughs] You know? You don't ta- you really, you don't hang out with any... I mean, besides your husband and his brother. Yeah. You don't hang out with g- you don't have any, you don't have any straight guys in the clique. No. [laughs] Like, actually. [laughs] There aren't family members, none. Okay, so it's girls and gays only, so this is a healthy dose of some straight man energy that you need. It's like when you need just a little bit of, of, a, a vaccine so you're able toYou know, survive straight guys in the world. Yeah. Like, this is, this is, this is cool. I'm having- [laughs] I'm having a nice time, surprisingly. Yeah. This is actually super cool. This is actually- Despite everything, against all odds. Despite everything. Yeah, I mean, we're d- we're, we're, we're, we're carrying a, a, a nation of straight men on our shoulders trying to show the rest of the world that 1% of us are somewhat tolerable. No. No, I'm not gonna do that. Nicole, men are back, and you need to fucking- [laughs] ... be on notice, okay? It's just- Yeah, clearly. No. Like, I, I'm on board. Look at me. I'm with Call Her Daddy's. [laughs] There we go. And having the time. Un- unfortunately, that might stick. [laughs] Yeah, do you, do you, do you listen or, or now, the, as the kids say, watch any pod- do you consume any, though? No. You're just reading books. I'm watching TV. I'm listening to music. Mm-hmm. Like, that's the thing. Like, it, this is, was that, like, an active no? I just, I'm not, like f- Mm. I'm just ... And Sophia was like, "Do it," and she's my best friend. And I was like, "Okay." And we had such a good time at The Bee. That really sealed the deal, you know? We did. Although, you're very tall, so that was a little scary, but- 'Cause you're, you're- [laughs] You're small. I'm 5'1". Okay. Yeah, that's g- okay. Well, you know, I'm not gonna hurt you physically or anything like that, but my, my presence- [laughs] ... in the room can be a lot, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for your strength. Mostly when you open your mouth. It has nothing to do with the physical stuff. I thought, I thought you did a good job spelling, by the way. I mean, we were all a little worried and nervous, but- Oh, for me- ... we all did pretty well ... or just in general? No, no, for, for, you know, everyone in general except for the guy that won. Uh, he seemed to be pretty confident, but. Nerd. By the way, you could ask me to spell cat, and in front of an audience, like, sometimes you just freeze in those, in those moments. Mm-hmm. But it was, it was very fun. Yeah. I also think none of us knew, or I didn't, I didn't really know what I was walking into. Like, I didn't have a visual. Yeah. Yeah. I had a great time. To be clear, though, to be cl- to be clear, Jason did beat you, right? Yeah. Okay. Did you? I just want- Did you win? I got second place. Cool. I got fu- I, I, I should've won, but I got Le- Louboutin instead of Lamborghini. I got in my head about it. It was tough. Yeah. You get, you get, you get in your head when it's, when you're on the spot like that. People yell out words and, and answers in the audience, and you, you get confused. Who said that? It's tough. Well, that's, that's some, uh, I think Substack cheaped out on security then 'cause we're not, you shouldn't be, have people yelling in the audience. That's a, that's a- [laughs] I agree ... that's distracting to the, the s- Yeah ... people on stage. Take down that potential threat. I would pause, and I was kind of looking for, like, I just wanted someone to, like, magically tell me a letter that I should be saying, and I was, like- [laughs] ... looking around for someone to help me, and- You're saying- ... no one did ... you were searching for eye contact in hopes that someone would maybe cheat a little. Would be like- Yeah, and- Yeah ... and you could, you- Yeah, give me a little wink. Yeah. And that wink, I would magically know was a C. [laughs] You should've, you could've planted someone for this if you were really thinking ahead, but I guess, you know, people don't wanna be a part of a cheating scandal. Yeah. But next time I would cheat. If I got asked back, I would cheat. Yeah, yeah, just hire one of your smartest friends, get a little earpiece. Tuck it behind- Yeah ... the hair. Yeah. Feed me answers to you, no problem. Yeah, you could hi- you could hide an earpiece, no problem. Yeah, cheating's cool. I agree. [laughs] I agree. Well, um, actually, on the subject of transgressions like that, were you ever a shoplifter? I was never a shoplifter, but I did, um, one time steal ... Remember Pogs? Of course. Unfortunately, yes. I think we are the exact demo for Pogs. The Hawaiian flip cup game. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So there was a Pog store on, um, Barrington in LA, in Brentwood. Mm-hmm. And I stole a Pog. [laughs] So I'm, I'm admitting, and I'm sorry. I wanna know. I bet whoever owned the Pog store in Brentwood probably made a lot of money- Yeah, yeah ... in those three years. So I'm sorry. Do you remember what ki- was it a Slammer? It was a s- it was a Slammer, yes. It better have been a Slammer. Do you remember what kind of Slammer it was? I don't. I don't. I actually didn't even remember Slammer until you said it, and it's- Mm-hmm ... making me happy. To be fair, to be fair, Slammer's worth a little jail time at least. You know, it's like if it was just a- Yeah ... regular piece of cardboard, it's like, you know, whatever, but if you did a month in Brentwood County. I did a month for stealing an O.J. Simpson Slammer. [laughs] I'm going down. I remember those were popular at the time. I, that was one of the greatest, that's one of the greatest trends to come a- that is, I think, our ... Well, I guess Beanie Babies was ours, too, but there was more money in that, but I feel like Pogs, that was an unbelievable, like, one year, and then it was completely over. Yeah, like, going back to what you said about, like, do your kids listen to bad music or whatever, like, do they do silly things? Like, we all do. [laughs] Like, we, everyone has a craze. Mm-hmm. Everyone's got some- bad, something bad that they're listening to. Oh, wait. Can, can I go back to my childhood trauma and tell you my cute little story? Yeah. Sure. So I wanted to- Please ... get Biz Markie's tape. Oh, yes, yes. Just a Friend. Mm-hmm. The Tower Records on Sunset Boulevard. Yes. So I asked my parents to drive me to Tower Records, and I went in, and I got the tape, and I got back in the car, and I sat in the backseat. And my parents said, "Oh, let's listen to what you bought." And I played it, and I'm sure they were just having the c- same conversation that we would have now as adults, like, "Oh, this music, these kids, LOL," you know, some version of that. [laughs] But in my childhood brain, my parents were laughing at me and making fun of me for my music, and I cried in the backseat, and I was really upset. [laughs] So I will not shame my kids for something that they're- That's a good, that's a good lesson ... into or that they were when they were little. So they're like, "This shit is trash, Nicole. Get this shit out of my cassette deck." Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] And by the way, it wasn't because we all know that song. Yeah, I agree. It's stuck in our heads. Mm-hmm. It's iconic. It, it's, no, that's, that's a j- a, it's a classic. I, I would- Yeah, it's a classic ... and I don't think-I ever wanted to hear it, but it's a classic, if that makes sense. Yeah. It's, it's like one of those that's embedded. But I'm glad that you've used your trauma for good and you've turned the ship around. Yeah, I have. I will never do what my parents did to me. [laughs] Break the cycle, Nicole. I'm breaking the cycle. The music that I played- [laughs] ... my parents were like, "What are you... Like, what, what is wrong with you?" It wasn't like, it was like- [laughs] ... what's, why is this, why are you so mad? Like, why are you worshiping Satan kind of vibe, you know? Right. Right, right. Mm-hmm. Or why are you such a bitch when you would, like, mix it up, the Slayer with the Elliott Smith or whatever. Yeah. Well, yeah. My par- they still think I'm a bitch. Don't worry about that. That's still, that's still part of the black household. Yeah. Do you, do you and y- and your husband ever, do you guys bond over musical tastes now more than, than when you first started dating? Do we bond more o- over music now? Just like a- as, as the, as the years have passed, have you, have, have your musical tastes sort of found each other? Since I'm assuming you were both coming from different places when you first linked up. How much... Yeah, I don't know how much Misfits you were listening to, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. N- yeah, I think so. Yes. Like, I, he has introduced me to... And, you know, he listens to a lot of indie music as well. That was, that's not a genre that I'm well-versed in. Mm-hmm. [laughs] Um, I listen to a lot of classic rock, but his dad grew up listening to a lot of classic rock. Sure. When you say classic rock, you, you're like f- like Foreigner or, like, Led Zeppelin? Zeppelin. Okay. So no bitch shit. Mm. [laughs] Just some real fucking, some Lynyrd Skynyrd maybe? Lynyrd Skynyrd, yes. I'm more like '60s, '70s. Okay. Okay. Like Laurel Canyon? No, no, The Doors. I love The Doors, but I'm not, like, listening to The Doors in my car, but, uh, like- [laughs] ... The Turtles. Sure. Um- Okay ... guys, I also love Britney Spears. Yeah, of course. I love pop mus- like, I love pop music. I love Nina Simone is my favorite singer. I play Nina Simone Pandora in my house all day long. Mm-hmm. I was, [laughs] I was hoping you were gonna be like, "You know what? He really turned me on to Taking Back Sunday, and they're kind of my favorite band now." [laughs] "So I, I left Nina Simone in the dust." This is bullshit. No, Nina all day is good. It's really hard to beat Nina Simone. Nina all day is good on the soul. Well, I, I, I, I hate to ask this question, but are, is it Pandora, is it the paid version, or is it the version with ads? It's the paid version. However, a few years ago, I had a, something happened. I don't know what happened, and I all of a sudden started getting ads. And I just did not know how to fix it. Like, no matter what, I could not fix it. And it was, like, I kept, when I w- when I had friends over, I kept finding myself, like, announcing that I don't know how to fix it. [laughs] I was, like, ashamed. As you should be. I mean, that is, it feels like you're in, like, a restaurant that's going out of business if you hear the Pandora ads come on. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] But- Oh, Pandora ... come to think of it now, I don't get ads, so I don't know. Somebody figured it out. Somebody in the house figured it out. Somebody, yeah. Somebody figured it out. Yeah. That's good. I was, I, I was, I was in van eyes, but they, but someone handled that for me. Okay, s- speaking of the house, they, they just found out who, they just un- unmasked the artist Banksy. Did you guys ever have any Banksy-like artwork in the crib? Yes. Yes, we did. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Any, any actual Banksys's? No. Just stuff adjacent to. Yeah. What is it, what- Okay ... it, it's not the g- it's not the guy from Massive Attack, right? No, it's not. Okay. Just some random guy. It's just some, some guy. Okay. Okay. But you know- Well, that's boring ... so what do you have in the house? I'm, my, my husband really is the art guy in the house. Right. Um- Mm-hmm ... I am not, and my parents- It's a Joel question ... it's a, it's, it's a Joel question, yeah. Got it. Okay. Yeah. [laughs] I'll send him a DM. Yeah, ask him. I wanted to ask you about that TV show that you did in 2018, 'cause it was really good. Okay, which, which one? Great News. Oh, I love that show so much. But I feel like a lot of people liked it. I feel like it was kind of a thing. We had the best time. And people were very happy with, but people were particularly happy with you. Oh, that's nice. 'Cause I think it was a surprise. Thank you. You know what I mean? I think people were like, "Oh, this is actually so cool. We didn't know that she was into it. We didn't know she did this." And I just feel like, how lo- how long did it last, though? It w- it was pretty quick. It was two seasons. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we were all- So you were sad to see it go ... we were all so sad. We were so sad. Or do you guys know Tracey Wigfield at all? No. Okay. Mm-mm. She's, I feel like she, she's very funny and feels energetically like she would be friends with you guys. But, um- Oh, okay ... it was her show, and she created it, her and Tina Fey. And, um, it was the best. Did they call you specifically for this? Is this, or did you, were you guys friends? No, I auditioned for it. Damn, okay. You said, "I got out the mud like the regular people." I like that. Yeah. I was in those streets. Are you still auditioning? I audition sometimes, and sometimes not. [laughs] Wow, okay. No, I didn't, I've, I've never saw Great News, and I, and I'm, uh, I'm ashamed to say I didn't even know about it. I'm sorry. No, it was, like, a thing because I remember reading about it, and p- the, the whole thing was like, "And you know what? Honestly, Nicole Richie kills it." That was, like, the whole- Oh, that's so nice ... break, breakout performance from Nicole Richie. That was, like, the pr- that was, like, sort of the main hook to the press, I felt like. That's so nice. So I was, I didn't know. Thank you. You're the, you're the Kylie Jenner of the moment, if that makes any sense to you. Yeah. What's the mo- like, the current moment? The, the moment. It's a, it's a Charli XCX movie that came out a few months ago. Oh, oh, oh, yes, yes, yes. And Kylie has, like- Okay, okay ... a, like a little random two-minute cameo in it, and everyone is like, "Out of all these actors, she was, she kind of- She's the star ... she kinda gave the best performance or, like, left the- Cool ... the longest impression," you know? Oh, so cool. So you're a Kylie kind of. Okay. I'm gonna watch Great News. It's good. It's good. I just, and I think you can- Okay ... you can still watch it, right? I guess you can watch everything now. Yeah. I'm gonna buy it on Amazon. Yeah. Give those guys a couple shekels. Yeah, you, I'm sure you got some good backend on that one. I think, I think, I think they need it. I'm sure you got some good backend. [laughs] But what do you w- what do you want to be doing? Did you like doing that because it was a challenge, or was that, like, what you actually wanted to be doing? I love acting. I love doing comedy. I love it so much. Well, what about podcasting?Um- You're a good com- you're a comedic talker. You can do it at home You're a funny person. You're jovial. You do it from home in your pajamas, make a little side cash. You can get all your little moms to come over. [laughs] You guys get the w- wine out, get the fucking... What's, what's, what's the wine brand? What's, what's the brand called? No, you probably, since you're a Breaking Bad head, you're probably drinking that fucking Dos Hombres - [laughs] ... shit, aren't you? I thought you were gonna say s- You sipping on that Dos? I thought you were gonna say s- so you're probably drinking, uh, crystal meth. I'm like, yeah, I am. You're probably shooting crystal meth. I am. I am. Okay. That's my, that's, that's, that's my, that's my brand. I like the, I like the idea that you like the show so much. You're like, "You know what? Fuck it. I'm just gonna do meth." [laughs] The, it, this is, this show is so good. [laughs] It's ju- I had to try it ... it's amazing. Yeah, and I am in- [laughs] I'm influenced. I just had to try it. [laughs] Yeah, I, I think that, I think that podcasting, I will say we don't want you to join the space, just because a lot of you guys have come in and eaten our lunch, so it's a little bit... It's dog eat dog right now. Mm-hmm. Um- Yeah, we're at war with famous people who can podcast. We're at war with, we're at war with smartless. Because they just shoot right up to the top, is what you're saying? Mm-hmm. Because they've made $200 million and we have not, mainly- Okay ... is the number one- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... is the number one thing. And we, we have gay guys we could add to the mix, you know what I mean? It's not that big of a deal. Mm. But it seems like that's, I don't think that's the differentiating factor. I think there's something else. We're learning that being famous is important in this town. [laughs] Oh, yeah. We're, uh- That's a good discovery. [laughs] I, I'm learning that having a 15 to 20 year career on television actually helps when you go audio only. Right. It- Right, right, right We're doing it the old-fashioned way. I think it is more, uh... I appreciate your restraint, 'cause I feel like I, I, I ca- I can only imagine that people have at least approached you or thought about it, and you've either said no or acted uninterested. Yeah. Um, you know, also, like, uh, um, so my husband has, uh, also said the same thing to me, you know, on s- on, on some level. Like, it, you know, it hasn't been a focused conversation of why don't you have a podcast, but we've talked about it, and he was like, "You're..." He said, "You're not, you're looking at a podcast in a very different..." Like, the world has changed from your, your... I think my understanding of a podcast is, like- Mm-hmm ... whenever they started. Yeah. And he said, you know, anytime someone sits with anyone a- and it's a video, like, that is a podcast. So he was like, "The, those shows that you've done," like this show I did, Candidly Nicole, and he's like, "All those shows, like- Mm-hmm ... technically could be podcasts." And so anyway, so we were at Bookfest and I, you know, I flew out all my friends and I was interviewing my favorite authors and we were having the time. And we've done it now for, for a few years. Like, we designed the whole thing. It's called the, it's called The Burgundy Room. It's so fab. And anyway, I was talking to Joel about it, I, when I w- when we were on the phone, and he said, you know, "That's a podcast." Burgundy Room is a podcast, queen. [laughs] And I was like, "Right." [laughs] Right. So- And it is an up-market, it's an up-market name as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's cool. The Shade Room, The Burgundy Room. Mm. Sounds better, doesn't it? Yeah, I think. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, that's, that, that is the s- I mean, if we're... We've gotten into this a lot on the show because as traditionalists, there is a differentiation as far as the... Because I, we've been told by other people that the Netflix thing with podcasts is they call it a podcast even though it's just a talk show, so they can- It's a show ... skip union fees. And is that something that you guys want to do, or do you do that? Do you sit down- We're doing- ... with people in person? We're doing something that's more akin to, like, Talk Soup Weekend Update, where it's us at, like, a desk talking about current events with, like, gra- you know, with, with images and graphics and stuff on the, on the- So, so no guests? Uh, we will have guests, but it's not this, it's not the Call Her Daddy mo- it's not that model, where it's like- It's not that model. It's not gonna be two people in two chairs on a, in a set in- In, in a beautiful setting ... in a beautiful setting, talking about, crying about your childhood or whatever. Yeah. We're open to the crying, but- I think that maybe you're too tall to be in person with your guests. Like- Yeah ... you know? Yeah. We, I've been told that I'm too tall for roles over the years in Hollywood. Yeah. So I think this, I think this is nice. [laughs] We're so tall. So you're saying we're so grotesquely tall, b- better to keep it audio only so we don't scare- Yeah, I don't wanna scare, I don't wanna scare any- ... scare the children and stuff ... guests. That's true. Like, I'm just saying it would cross my mind if you said, "Come into the studio and let's do a podcast." I would say, "He's so tall." Mm. That's your feedback. So what would that look like? We'd be, you'd be, we'd be sitting down, though, so it's- I would say, like, how are you gonna get us in the same frame? How tall are you? 6'9". And Chris is 6'4". Wait, you really are 6'9"? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Real talk, queen. Nicole, are your feet touching the ground when you sit down? Um. [laughs] So when we were, I, so Jedidiah and I were walking across Tulane the other, uh, this, over this weekend, and we saw they had, like, very high benches. [laughs] And I guess people were swinging their legs. And Jed goes, Jed goes, I, he just was observing, and he said, and he said, "I love when adults swing their legs." And I looked over and I said, "Jed, that's what I do every day." I've never not swung. This is why I asked that. I was like, that's actually my life. But that, it's funny that you observe that- Yeah, it's- ... as funny ... I would say once every eight years I sit on something where I could swing. I feel like I have some pictures of you on my phone where we would find, like, a com- like, an oversized novelty chair. The hotel lobby giant chair. I'm swinging in that bitch. Yeah, like, a big chair. That's, that's a fun one. How is- That's a fun one ... how is flying for you? Do you have to fly first? Like, what do you do? Private. Or private? I mean, I, I don't have to. Luckily, as I've, as I've gotten older, the amount of, of, uh, lay flats are increasing in my day-to-day, but I've, I've flown hundreds and hundreds of flights in the back of coach and it's just, I mean, I'm a little- You just kinda squeeze in ... I, my, my philosophy is when you fit nowhere, you fit everywhere, so you just kinda- Wow ... like, what's the option? You, you just make it work. Damn, bro. [laughs] Damn, bro. And you could use that for, like, other things, not just flying, okay? You know what I mean? [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. No, this is a li- this is a life lesson. 'Cause you were 6'9" when your ass was broke, so- [laughs] ... there ain't no, you, you, you know. Yeah, I've been broke and 6'9" and not broke at 6'9". It's, there's huge differences. I think I just assume when you're that tall, like, you just-Have to then be rich That's what his wife assumes too- [laughs] ... but sometimes you can't hit the mark. You know what I mean? Sometimes [laughs] Like, you can't just be, like, rolling around. You can't be tall and poor. Can't be, like, ripping and running. Well, the, well, the problem is that being tall as a man is, uh, the b- from what women have been saying in the last decade, that's the most, you know, that's the, the highest virtue you can have as a man. You can be an asshole- Hmm ... you can be, uh, poor, you can be a, a, a drug addict, but if you're tall, you're fine. You're, you're at least fucking- Mm-hmm ... if nothing else. And that- Exonerates all of your wrongdoings ... it's ba- it's, it's, it's been prioritized too much, I would say, and I'm, I'm, and I'm someone who probably benefits from that, and I still think it's been prioritized too much. Mm-hmm. And you're 6'4. Yeah. That also feels tall, but we just w- we're, we're now coming from 6'9, so I'm like, "Oh." Yeah. No, it's, it's, it works in my favor. No, that's fine. He's 6'4 and hairless, so that's something, but, you know. Yeah, that's kinda cool. Different strokes. Because I stand next to him and peop- in pictures, and it makes me look like I'm, like, 5'8, and then I meet someone and they're like, "Oh, shit. Actually." Mm-hmm. So it's a nice surprise. But I, I like to say that it's the only handicap that zero people have sympathy for. Right. I don't know if girls care about being tall. I mean, I think I would rather be my height than 5'4. Girls don't wanna look old. I'd either wanna be 5'9 or- Women don't wanna look old- ... 5'1 ... that's all they care about- [laughs] ... from what I can tell. [laughs] They just don't wanna look old. Yeah, that's all. They don't wanna look old, and they don't wanna be fat. Yeah, no- Those are the two things ... no guy has ever been like, "I found this, she's, she's so hot, but she's a little short for me, so I'm not gonna fuck her." Yeah, no man has ever said that. [laughs] She's a little tiny for me. No, bro. I don't know, bro. She's only 5'5. I don't know if I can do it. Like, imagine if it was reversed. She keeps wanting to hang out with me, but I don't know. She's not tall enough. [laughs] No, we matched, and she was cool, but I just- Yeah, that just doesn't happen. Whereas it's, it's- But the height thing is strange. Hmm. It's, it's strange. It's been prioritized to the point of, like, short king is part of our lexicon now. Short king is a term that my mom probably knows. You know what I mean? That, that did not exist, like, 10 years ago. Which means, like, you're so awesome, and you've done so much in your life despite your height. Uh, you're, you're tolerable to be around. Well, I hear tall girls, when they go out on dates with guys, if they're taller than the guy, I think that's strange for them. Well, of course. Yeah, that's, that's bad for everybody. 'Cause they wanna feel like babies sometimes. Mm-hmm. You know? Baby. Yeah. Which is, which is tough for me as the tallest guy in the club, always. Back when I was single, there'd al- every friend group have the one fucking volleyball chick that would come over and, "You gotta meet my friend," and I'm like, "Oh, no, this..." And I, you know, I'm, I'm being arranged with a woman that can beat me in arm wrestling. You're like, "No, I don't, I'm not trying to-" And I'm saying, "No, I don't like..." No. No. "No, I don't... I, I, I can't feel like a baby." Why you think I... Yeah, why do you... Just 'cause I'm tall don't mean I like that. Yeah, I don't want no WNBA fucking starting- But I feel, I mean, but that makes me feel bad for, for v- very tall women. It's a tough go out there. Yeah. I think they do fine. They're either models or athletes. It's tough. No, but I mean, like, women that are, like, as tall as I am. Like, there's, there are very few, but, like, there's a woman who's 6'8 right now who's having a tough go at life. And she's like, "I want to find a man, but, like, now he has to be tall." Yeah. Who is this woman that could frame mog you? Is she a athlete? No, I don't know who these people are, but they ex- I'll, I'll... They, they do exist. But they- I've seen- ... they are out there Of course. Of course ... I've seen them pop up on, on Instagram or something like that. And, or, you know, like, and there's people who are into, like, tall women and, like, large women fetishes and stuff. So thanks to technology, you can be, you know, a giant fucking cave-dwelling monster of a lady and make a pretty good amount of money on OnlyFans. You know what I mean? Just sitting on little guys and squishing stuff, and- I didn't even think about that. There are new income streams for women of that stature. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And they're probably- All right ... quite profitable. I would say it's better for your bo- OnlyFans is better for your body than playing a couple years in the WNBA. Yeah. Now, now send me a photo of you standing in a doorway. Oh, yeah. [laughs] You're telling me you have to duck every time? [laughs] Yeah. Things that you don't have to worry about, right, Nicole? You've never hit your head on a doorway? Yeah, this is not... No, I just, uh... But I would, I would look at you on a plane, like you're the person I would look at and say, "I wouldn't, I'm not even gonna pretend like I can put my bag in the overhead space." [laughs] Um, it's just not an option for me, so, um, and there's always someone there that I can just- Mm-hmm ... politely ask, "Would you mind?" You point at me, you point at the Rimowa, and you say, "Make it happen." My question to you is, though, you remember a couple years ago, that was looked down upon. There was a whole line of thinking that it was disrespectful for- Mm-hmm ... to, to help a woman put her, like you're taking away her agency if you help her put her bag up. I'll do it myself, goddammit. Oh, no, I'm down for it too. I'm not a f- no. I'm like, "Please- This is a real thing ... help me- Yeah ... in this, in, in, in this lane." I can do a lot of things myself. That is not one of them. I like to help, but I, for a couple years, I try, I, I was weary. I wouldn't, I wouldn't offer unless I saw a visible struggle because I was afraid of what would happen to me on, you know. I fe- I, I just go ahead and ask. Hmm. Like, I don't even make it, I'm not gonna wait, I'm not gonna pretend. Yeah. Like I say, "Will you please help me?" And we just get it out of the way really fast. Mm-hmm. That's not, yeah, that's- It's the way it should be. Yeah. Yeah, that's not, that's not true. Yeah, I've been doing that at supermarkets my whole life, getting a little something on the top shelf. Yes ... for all you mama citrus out there. Oh, you, you need those, you need those Triscuits, shorty? Let me get those for you. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. That's nice. That's a real o- offer, Jason. That's really sweet of you. Not those beans, the other one. The ones on the top. [laughs] Usually at the end of, uh, certain episodes with certain guests, we ask this one question. Okay. If you don't wanna answer it, you can totally not answer it, and we can just cut the whole thing. Okay. Top five prescription drugs of all time. [laughs] Like, what do you mean? Like, of all the drugs out there that pharmaceutical companies make that we have enjoyed over the years, Vicodins- Oh, oh, oh, oh ... Xanaxes, OxyContins. Oh, okay. I'm, I'm, okay, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm understanding. Um, I mean, I've enjoyed all of them. [laughs] I don't know. Right now, at 44, I'm very into meclizine, but it's not fun. It's more just- What the hell is that? ... to help with my vertigo. Meclizine. Um, it's like a prescription version of Dramamine. Oh. Okay. A- an anti-nausea- It's an anti, like, dizzy, vertigo medication, and, um, I, it's not funBut I appreciate it. Okay. Have you always had vertigo or did it, like, develop? It, it ended up developing- Damn ... later in life. Oh, I've, I've heard this vi- I've heard, I've heard this- Yeah ... from a few people, actually. But it, it comes on, and then it's kind of intense, and then it go- and then it, it can go, it just goes away. Yeah Right? Like, it's like a pretty- Pretty sporadic ... but, but how... the ep- the episodes can last whatever amount of time. Is that- Days. Could be. Oh, wow. Are you, like, are you, like, bedridden? At, at its height, yes. Damn. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, so there's a peak, and then it kinda tails off, but you're not in the clear. Yeah. There's versions of it that are not that. Um, but, like, I, for example, if I'm getting in an Uber, I have to sit in the front seat. Oh, so you... Okay, so there's little things that you now know that, like, "I have to do this." That I just know that set me off. And I love roller coasters so much, and I never thought... I used to look down on adults that would not go on roller coasters. Holy shit. We just got... We're at the end of this? And I would say, "I'm never gonna be-" [laughs] I'm also a coaster lover, Nicole. How did we just get to the- Oh. Oh my God. I love them. I love roller coasters. Oh, this is terrible. Okay. So, so the curse of being a roller coaster lover with vertigo is what you have. Yeah. That's tough. That's its own episode, I think. Wow. Mm. If you could just... All right, what's... I- I don't mean to bring up a sore subject, but what, what is your favorite coaster, if you had to, you know, of all time? 'Cause I... Mine's the Great American Scream Machine at Six Flags Over Georgia. [laughs] I grew up in Atlanta. That's my top. Okay. It's rickety. It's wood. It's not one of those new modern joints, so you can kinda catch a little air- Okay, okay ... if you sit in the back seat. Oh. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Um, what's coming to mind right now, uh, um, is Tatsu. Tatsu? I'm, I'm unfamiliar. That sounds like a restaurant. You would, you would've eaten at before you went to Hyde. [laughs] So if you could give me a little more detail. Yeah, Tatsu Ramen over there on Melrose. It's great. I wonder if that's the name. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, it's a ramen place on Melrose. But what else is it, what else does it do? Guys, that might not be the name, but it's at Magic Mountain, and it's fun. [laughs] And it starts with a T. Okay. But what- No, it is called Tatsu. But what is the vibe, I'm saying? Is it, like, a upside, ups- is it upside down? Are you flying like Superman? Is it- Yeah ... is it go up, come down? You're strapped in, and you go forward. Forward. Okay. Um- Sure ... what's that one X, X where you're going through the flames? [laughs] Are... You said you're a Six Flags guy. He's from, he's, he's going to the one in Atlanta, not... He's not a Magic Mountain head. Right. I had a great, I had a, um, an amazing summer. I used to manage a band, and we d- did a deal where they played every Six Flags one summer. Wow. So I went to most of them that summer, and we had, like, the escort and everything, and I was like, it was the best summer of my life. I'll tell you what I can't do that really freaks me out, is the roller coasters that go from zero to full speed- Yeah, yeah ... immediately. Mm. That, like, does something. I feel like I possibly will have a heart attack, so- Sure. I don't, I don't love- That's a no for me ... I, I, I like a more of a classic style, but I, I think they've gotten too advanced technologically. But I like drop... Yeah, like, I don't... Let's not get crazy with it. Like, I love, a fall is very, like, it's... I... And do you, do you lean forward? What do you do when you're dropping? Of course. Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna lean. Like, I push my body forward- Yeah ... and then it becomes, like, relaxing. Yes. I'm floating. I'm floating. Yeah. I'm in a, I'm in a float tank. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I've, I've got the Tatsu wiki pulled up. "Fly at the speed of fear." That's my vibe. And it says- [laughs] ... "You're situated in a vertical standing position. The car, the-" Oh "... each car pivots 90 degrees, transitioning riders into a horizontal flying position." Oh, I miss it. Oh. So sad. I, I love how we- we're speaking so fondly and romantically of Tatsu over at Samurai Summit at Magic Mountain. It's really sad that, like... F- guys, feel bad for me. I can't ride it anymore. I do. Maybe we can play a little Roller coaster Tycoon on the iPad or something like that. Just scratch the itch. I don't know. [laughs] We'll get you some- Yeah ... we'll get you some goggles. We'll get you some VR goggles, and you can just live your truth- Okay ... on the couch. Great. That sounds even better. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna clear that vertigo up using AI technology, and we're gonna get you back on those r- Thank you ... riding those rails again, mama. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, Nicole. Thank you for joining us. It was a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, guys. This was so much fun. Our treat. Anything to plug? Just, uh, go check out some House of Harlow, buy some jewelry. Yeah. Is that, is that... That's pretty much it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do it. Do it. We didn't even get into your fem- being a female founder, my favorite subject. I love to support female founders. Next episode. That's why we had you on today, really. Something to grow on. Oh. Well, I'm glad we- Mm-hmm ... didn't talk about it. [laughs] [laughs] Well, people are familiar with your founderdom. It's, it's not like I need to tell them. Tell Joel we say hi as well. I will. I will. All right. We'll see you soon. Bye, guys. [upbeat music] There's a new way to Sweetgreen. Meet wraps. Handheld, hearty, and made for life on the move. With bold chef-crafted flavors, fresh ingredients, and over 40 grams of protein, they're built to satisfy without slowing you down. 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